THE INTERVIEW: China does not seek to build a military base in Somalia-ambassador Shengchao

Goobjoog News editor Abdiaziz Gurbiye spoke to the Chinese ambassador to Somalia Fei Shengchao on a wide range of issues covering the relations between China and Somalia. 

Goobjoog News (GN): Could you highlight your country’s contribution and support in affecting the ongoing drought in Somalia?

Amb. FEI Shengchao: Yes. As we know that now the situation is becoming worse and worse in terms of the climate conditions and we are all expecting more rainfall in the coming Gu season(the rainy season from March to June). But if the rainfall is not going to be adequate, then probably things will become worse. Nowadays when we talk to our Somali friends and when we talk among the international partners, we are all very much concerned about the drought which is quite serious.

If it’s really becoming a very serious drought, then it’s going to be the fourth consecutive year for inadequate rainfall in this country. The drought has been plaguing the Somali people for quite a long time. As far as China is concerned, we share the sufferings of the Somali people and we care about people here, because China, as you may know, is a country that is very prone to natural disasters. We suffer from flooding, drought, earthquakes, many many natural disasters, so we know how it feels to encounter such natural disasters and how people will suffer.

So we are really very sympathetic with our brothers and sisters in Somalia. That is why over the years China has always reached out to our Somali brothers and sisters to help in times of crisis and natural disasters. I recall although I arrived just last year, when I checked out the record I could see that China provided food aid and also provided all kinds of humanitarian assistance to Somalia over the years to the IDPs(internally displaced persons) as well.

I arrived in August last year and at the time Somalia was still suffering from the drought, flooding and the locust of the past few months. So China reached out last year. In October, we successfully delivered more than 20 containers full of humanitarian assistance from China to Somalia and the China was among the first countries that had delivered humanitarian assistance to Somalia at that time and in large quantities. I can recall that we delivered about 10,000 tents, 50,000 mosquito nets, 20,000 first aid kits and also thousands of thermometers, baby scales and medical supplies.

I’m very glad to hear that some of those supplies were actually delivered on a very timely basis. As we know that people not only suffered from the flooding, the drought and the locusts in Somalia last year, but also later unfortunately there were latest conflicts as well. So there were some new IDPs(internally displaced persons) in this country. As far as I know that some of those new IDPs(internally displaced persons), for example, those in Guriel, they benefited from this batch of Chinese humanitarian assistance.

During the latest drought, in January, the Chinese Foreign Minister Wang Yi paid a visit to Africa. This has been a Chinese foreign policy tradition. At the beginning of each year, when any Chinese foreign minister started his outbound visit, he would choose an African country to start a visit. So this tradition has been there for decades. So this year Foreign Minister Wang Yi chose to start his foreign visit particularly the African visit with the Horn of Africa. He came to visit Eritrea, Ethiopia, Kenya and a number of other countries. Of course I also heard complaints why Foreign Minister Wang Yi has not come to Somalia. That’s something I’m working on. I’m sure that the Chinese foreign minister will come sooner or later. That’s something we’re working on. During his visit he learned about the drought situation already hitting the Horn of Africa. So he said that China will actively consider providing more aid to the Horn of Africa nations. The Chinese Foreign Minister first had a telephone conversation with his Somali counterpart Foreign Minister Abdisaid Muse Ali. Later when they attended the Islamic cooperation meeting in Pakistan, they two had their very first face to face meeting on the sidelines of the meeting. At the time the Foreign Minister of China said that China will provide emergency food aid to Somalia.

GN: The African Union force ATMIS is undergoing a final two year transition before Somalia forces take over. Will your country be taking a more enhanced role in supporting this transition?

Amb. FEI Shengchao: We have all noted the latest changes to the UN resolution, the new mandate and from the AMISOM forces to the ATMIS forces. Actually China has always supported the peaceful reconstruction of Somalia and supported peace, stability and growth in this country. We believe that African nations should be in a position to deal with African issues on their own. That’s why we support an African led and African-owned process in resolving regional issues or issues on the African continent. And the same applies to Somalia. That’s why we have consistently supported a Somalia-owned and Somalia-led process in bringing back peace and stability in this country.

As far as the ATMIS is concerned, we understand that there were disputes, there were controversies, there were twists and turns. But throughout all this process, we encourage the different parties to try to negotiate and seek a solution that would be in the best interest of Somalia and in the best interest of Africa as a whole. In the UN we have always supported the political independence, territorial integrity and sovereignty of Somalia.

GN: The recent shipment of equipment from China to the Somali national force generated mixed reactions among Somalis. Could you set the record straight on this issue?

Amb. FEI Shengchao: Yes, I understand what you are referring to. As I mentioned, China has given humanitarian assistance to Somalia. At the time I heard praises, and at the same time I also heard complaints. People would complain that Somalia does not need humanitarian assistance, Somalia needs defense equipment. But this time when the defense equipment came, I heard mixed reactions as well. So of course we need to listen to what people have to say, but at the same time we also need to be very clear in our interactions with our Somali counterparts to see what is really needed in this country. I think Somalia needs many things and we need to have a comprehensive approach to help and support Somali efforts to bring peace and stability back.

Humanitarian assistance is indeed needed and at the same time the enhancement of the capacity of defense forces of Somalia is certainly also required. Otherwise when we talk about the transition from ATMIS to the Somali forces, how can that be achieved? So I understand the mixed reactions. But of course we also need to take into account all the factors in light of the actual needs of Somalia. We fully respect the choices and decisions of Somalia, so in whatever we help and support, we seek the consent of Somalia first.

GN: Could you speak about the Belt and Road Initiative and how Somalia can take part in it?

Amb. FEI Shengchao: Yes, the Belt and Road Initiative is an initiative that China put forward and has actually won the endorsement and active participation of many many nations in the world including Somalia.

GN: So Somalia is in there?

Amb. FEI Shengchao: Yes, Somalia is in there. Somalia has actually signed the relevant memorandum of understanding with China on the Belt and Road Initiative. Of course people also are asking then why I haven’t seen much being done in Somalia. That is something I have to be very honest with you that still peace, stability and security(concerns) are the real obstacles in the way of more and greater cooperation between us on the Belt and Road Initiative. But I can also be very frank with you that I think that there are huge potentials and also our trading relations have grown quite rapidly.

GN: On the issue of fishing licensing for Chinese companies, there are growing accusations of lack of transparency and that deal favors the Chinese. What is your action on this?

Amb. FEI Shengchao: I think I always have a very strong sense of being wronged by the people who actually accuse us China of illegal fishing, because when it comes to illegal fishing or any other illegal activities, no matter in fishing or any other areas, China is on the side of justice and on the side of law. Whenever Chinese go out or whenever Chinese businesses do business in other countries, the first and foremost requirement of the Chinese government is to respect and abide by the local laws and regulations and international law.

Whenever there is any offense, just let us know and let the law prevail, but do not let disinformation prevail with no evidence or just take the Chinese as the scapegoat for the illegal activities of others. So for the licenses you mentioned, yes indeed, there are licenses issued by the Somali authorities both federal and state authorities. And I also understand there are sometimes controversies and disputes between the jurisdictions as well. That’s why we strongly advise and encourage all Chinese fishing vessels to have the federal licenses no matter whether they have the state licenses.

That’s also a piece of advice that we offer and we require Chinese fishing companies to respect. And they are doing what they can in a very uncertain environment. Also as far as I know that the ministry of fishery of the federal government and many fishing authorities of the states are generally satisfied with what they have in the fishing cooperation between the two countries. So I would welcome more specific information about anything that you may complain or anything you would like to commend but not general or umbrella accusations with no facts.

GN: How is China involved in Somalia debt relief process?

Amb. FEI Shengchao: May I ask a question first? When it comes to debt relief process for Somalia, what kind of expectations do you have for China or for other international partners and then I’ll get back to your question.

GN: You know we always hear that many countries (like those) in Paris club, they always help Somali people for debt relief process and all this thing. So now we are asking how is China involved in Somalia debt relief process.

Amb. FEI Shengchao: You may even have heard about the so-called Chinese debt trap.

GN: Yeah.

Amb. FEI Shengchao: So that’s why I’m asking the question. You can see how disinformation has prevailed in such a large expanse of land all over the world. Because we know that we Chinese are a farmers’ country. For farmers we do a lot, we talk a little. That’s the farmers’ tradition. So we are wronged by many. Take debt relief for example, China is not a donor country. We see ourselves as a partner for all other countries, but we are not a donor. We are still a developing country ourselves.

We still have a lot of needs for our own development, but at the same time we are a very staunch supporter of south-south cooperation. We believe even among poor brothers and sisters, we need to reach out and help each other. That’s why we have always been helping other developing nations as well. You may also have heard back in the 1960s, 1970s and 1980s, China actually helped build about 89 major projects all over Somalia including the National Stadium that now you have, the National Theatre, the Banadir Hospital for Women and Children, the North South highway actually linking Beletwenye and Burao that was built by China, the biyo shiinaha(water supply system) in Hargeisa. Before the civil war, China sent about 13 medical teams with 400 doctors and nurses to work in this country and treat the people here. At the time China was even much poorer. But China was selfless in reaching out to help our brothers and sisters in Somalia.

GN: Now I can understand that you may involve in helping Somalia as a country, but not debt relief process. That’s what I can understand.

Amb. FEI Shengchao: No, that’s not the point. The point is we also lent to our brothers and sisters in developing countries including Somalia. But we do not see ourselves as a donor which means that we are not in the Paris club. We have done even better than those in the Paris club. For example, when people talk a lot about the so called debt trap, but you see what. You may see that we are also talking about so-called deadline for Somalia in many areas when it comes to debt. But those deadlines have nothing to do with China. So you can see we do not believe debt should be used as a tool to harm or control others. Debt should be a tool to help others and support others. That’s our philosophy. Take Somalia for example, we see Somalia as a HIPC, highly indebted poor country, so we have canceled all Somali debt long long ago. So now Somalia is zero in arrears to China.

GN: (US) Africa Command General Stephen Townsend said in a media interview last month that China was in talks with Somalia over the establishment of a military base. Is your country seeking a military base in Somalia?

Amb. FEI Shengchao: It’s no surprise when I read his report, but I was surprised a little bit by how he got this piece of information or disinformation. Because to be very honest with either him, General Townsend or anyone here I can make it in public, China does not seek to build a military base here in Somalia and we have not talked with Somali side on that topic at all. So I don’t know where this piece of information comes out, whether they have overheard others talking about this or whether they just fabricated this disinformation to serve their own budget.

GN: How do you think Somalis can learn from your expertise of your country in rebuilding the nation?

Amb. FEI Shengchao: As I say we are a farmers’ country. A farmers’ country does a lot, talks a little. And we do not like to see ourselves as lecturers. We do not think that everybody else should learn from us. No, but we are willing to share what we have gone through. Just last year, 2021 marks the centenary of the Communist Party of China. So we review the history of our party over the past 100 years. Over the past 100 years, we have had almost every suffering of the Somali people. We were bullied, we were colonized, we were invaded by others, we fought among ourselves ferociously and our people were starving. Our people suffered from all kinds of natural disasters without proper state help.

GN: And you overcome?

 Amb. FEI Shengchao: In 100 years’ time we overcame all these problems and challenges and we turned China into the second largest economy of the world. And nowadays the Chinese people lead a comfortably off life and they could enjoy their life and we could see the smiling faces of women and children. And I take great pride in all this. For many African friends, when I talk with them, they also feel very proud of China’s achievements, not only because they would like to see china succeed, but also I think China’s achievements have encouraged them greatly, because they believe they can do the same if they make the effort.

GN: But we always hear that China is a communist operation, no freedom of expression. What is that?

Amb. FEI Shengchao: That is propaganda. That is disinformation. We all know who has the largest or loudest speaker in the world. So I would say if you do not trust or believe China, then you may just try to listen to more sides to see the different perspectives. You have other perspectives. If you even do not trust all the media, then of course the best way is to go to China and see it for yourself, to see whether you have the freedom to speak or to do things you would like to do. How can you imagine in 100 years’ time, in a country 100 years ago, we had about 400 million people, now we have 1.4 billion. How can you imagine an oppressed unfree country can make itself overcome all these difficulties and become the second-largest economy in the world.